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Re: Happy Conqueroring - except if you are jewish :-(
Posted by: hallali ()
Date: January 30, 2011 11:56AM

Hola Hola! What is this?

Best, a player most of us know for quite a while (as the player ´nosy´) is accused of being an antisemite!

DonDK accused Best of antisemitic speech in the lobby. In the same post he indicated that moderators don´t act towards racism as they should, as there is some ´on going favorism´ from moderators, especially me, towards players like best. He suggested it is maybe because we both are German, which indicates a certain attitude with the history the Germans have and I and other mods and admins are antisemitic as well in tolerating Best. Aha.

Well indeed, I pull the reins in rather late, nobody gets muted, kicked or banned for a little spamming, a fuck here and there or some anti-female remark.
Indeed some players even asked me, why I do not ban Adriano or Song-Jiang for attacking me under the belt. It is because I can seperate being a player attacked from being a mod. The last stupid comment I can remember was Attila calling me a chick with a dick. So what?

I am not as freeminded as RIPPE, but I share his dislike of censorship. There are only two exceptions: Racism and homophobia.

I dont like players giving themselves nicks like Hitler, or Ethan calling someone nigger. I saw Xuul warning AdolfHitler to change his nick immediately or risking being kicked. And indeed being German with a more than average interest in history I humbly accept the responsibility comming with that heritage. I surely defy any antisemitic remarks.

So what about Best?. Which are the evicences?

DonDK said he saw best talking in an antisemitic way in the lobby.

Attila (Adriano) seconded to that.

Any other evicences? I talked to Xuul about that and he confirmed that best in one game (not to be misunderstood as constantly) called someone a jew (not a lying jew). Xuul, as admin and witness talked with best about that and best directly apologized and distanced himself from that remark, so Xuul told me. Xuul, being admin and a well known, fair sportsman saw no need for action.

What about me?

My own opinion about best? I know him for more than 3 years now both as best and nosy. I never read anything racist or antisemitic from him as I havent from the vast majority of the players here. And I was online enough the last years. Also in his style of playing he seems to be a fair character, eager to win, but not unable to loose.

What do I know about Attila (Adriano)? Ok we all know A/A. Sorry man, but you are a troubleshooter, very eloquent with words. You guys know, Best complained a few times to me some months ago that Attila is constantly whipering to him, calling him a nazi, fag (?) and whatever and that he felt mobbed and stalked. Hmmm.

And DonDK? You are a very good player, having played you once, but registered only recently in this lobby (31.12.2010). I havent seen you playing so much but only the last 3 months ago and never really talked to you in person. Rather then talking to me about best when I was online you decided to write a post, not only accusing best, but also question my, masters and admins ability in acting as a mod/admin. Not only that but hinting me being German and ,according to best protecting him, thus being antisemitic as well. Hmmm.

I take your accuses serious, but you can´t seriously expect any serious moderator to ban someone just because of what you say. Most people complaing here use screenshots to prove their accusations. Attila seconded for what you said, but I am really sorry to say, that is not a reliable resource. And BAAL, well he registered 06.01.2011 and I never heard of him. If there are such serious accusations one should expect that people are not hiding behind second or third nics (which is the same as ´hiding behind friends´which you don´t like).

Is there any other well known, grown up player here, who can confirm DonDks accusations? And I mean more than that one comment Xuul referred to, but ongoing racism and antisemitism. Paars? LNO? G? Queen? Emp? Rex? Scientist? Gratis? Keyser?

Is there any other member of this community questioning my ability as a mod? Or accusing me of on going favourism of certain players who need to be banned?

DonDK accused not only best and indirectly me, but the whole Community in being antisemitic.

Anybody who experienced this community and played this game seriously knows: We are not antisemitic or racists!

Is antisemitism and racism here really the problem or is this only an excuse to make up a front where there hasnt been one before? I think we all know the answer.


Hallali, moderator



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/30/2011 12:27PM by hallali.

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Re: Happy Conqueroring - except if you are jewish :-(
Posted by: LikeNoOthers ()
Date: January 30, 2011 12:29PM

I read your post, you have really spent some time on it, and it was a pleassure to read. I also noticed best feeling "attacked" by Adriano, and i remember Adriano calling him a nazi to, but i am not sure if that was before or after the jew remark.
I can also confirm that Best has said jew, but i cant remember in what sentence it was used.
I am pretty sure no one else is questioning your ability as a mod.

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Re: Happy Conqueroring - except if you are jewish :-(
Posted by: Attila ()
Date: January 31, 2011 08:30AM

Well I would be happy to give it a rest, it's getting dragged along now. I in fact offered nosy/best to discuss and resolve this in a normal way twice. He rejected both times. Oh sure I got under his skin quite some times. He's not very smart yet cocky, my favorite combination :) But haven't I been under all ur skins at times? Yet none of u calls me lying jew, stupid nigger or lazy chicano. See that's the difference. I'll find ur weak spot and keep poking it till the puss gushes from it. Yes Halalli in ur case it's ur femininity :) But let's not defame entire nations, especially not ones that were systematically exterminated, using the very same stereotypes the genocidists used. Antisemtimism and any racism is just a line we shouldn't cross, except an occasional harmless joke.

All that said, I don't think we're gonna solve this. Most of us have made jokes that aren't exactly "correct", but nosy/best appears to be a genuine biggot, because when confronted, he defended himself, claiming that it's okay to call "liars" (in his perception of course, for him i'm a "liar" ergo a "jew" because for example we once disagreed on what exactly constitutes a "classic" map i mean - LOL), to call liars - jews. Because "jews are liars". Yea how could I have missed that history class. Nice circular logic as well. It's just sad, and we're not gonna fix him here. Well I sure as hell am not going to :) Maybe some nice guy like Xuul, but I suspect nosy/best just went along with him to avoid a ban. But I wasn't present at the time, so who am I.

"guess who's advancing"

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Re: Happy Conqueroring - except if you are jewish :-(
Posted by: Paars ()
Date: January 31, 2011 02:49PM

Lets give this topic a rest until DonDK decides to reply.

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Re: Happy Conqueroring - except if you are jewish :-(
Posted by: Attila ()
Date: January 31, 2011 10:44PM

Actually it was not Don's reply I was waiting for but nosy/best's. he said he would explain his behavior here, through LNO, because of his terrible english. But that's been like a week now. Well, waiting...

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Re: Happy Conqueroring - except if you are jewish :-(
Posted by: Paars ()
Date: January 31, 2011 11:19PM

Oh, I heard he had problems with signing in to forums.

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Re: Happy Conqueroring - except if you are jewish :-(
Posted by: LikeNoOthers ()
Date: February 02, 2011 08:47AM

Merely forgot his pw i believe, daily checking for the email though, but i dont think we are in a rush

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Re: Happy Conqueroring - except if you are jewish :-(
Posted by: Attila ()
Date: February 03, 2011 07:19AM

That sounds like an indirect and cowardly way to say that he won't answer, because as I remember he would tell u and u would translate it to english. If that's not the case, it's pretty easy to register a new account just for the forums. Takes a few minutes. Well as far as I'm considered it's pretty clear where everybody stands. It's quite sad that a good player like Don quits because of some disturbed teenager with neo-nazi leanings, and apparently most here don't give a f*ck. Sad.

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Re: Happy Conqueroring - except if you are jewish :-(
Posted by: MPehrsson ()
Date: February 03, 2011 07:52AM

if i have understood this correctly best wrote something about jews which should not be tolerated ofc. but why not let the moderators deal with this instead of keep discussing wether he is a cowardly nazi or not. DonDk made people aware that best had written some bad things about jews and now this should only be in the hands of the moderators who will deal with this as they want.

that you Attila keep posting how much of a nazi and a coward best is, is not doing anything good other than maybe provoking best.

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Re: Happy Conqueroring - except if you are jewish :-(
Posted by: Attila ()
Date: February 03, 2011 12:42PM

U bet I won't get off his back. Unless he publicly renounces his despicable statements. Can't stand stinking nazis. U know, being a nazi is a choice. Nationality - not.

BTW I get an add now at the bottom of this page: "Jewpon.com Save 25-75% off the best in KOSGER deals" LOL

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Re: Happy Conqueroring - except if you are jewish :-(
Posted by: jenny ()
Date: February 03, 2011 03:05PM

I was logged on at this time and I did see the lobby, and the comment that best made was racist, however it was not recieved well by the community and best quickly backed out of the conversation which was then taken up and discussed more throughly by LNO DON and adriano, I am also sure that shortly after this discussion Hallali did mute a player in the lobby.

Now that being said, how else would you like the community or the moderators to act, each person has there own beliefs, and to not include a member of this game for their beliefs, (not their actions, because very little is actually said here about the certainty of his actions) is pretty ridiculous. You are inferring that you would like conqueror to become a private game where only people who believe what you believe are allowed to play?

Also this topic is not new with in the game, there are 3 threads about it already, and it is interesting that Adriano kept his mouth shut on all of these other threads when he had such a heart wrenching experience so many years ago.....

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Re: Happy Conqueroring - except if you are jewish :-(
Posted by: Zakistan ()
Date: February 03, 2011 08:22PM

Well I like jews, but I don't like Israel.

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Re: Happy Conqueroring - except if you are jewish :-(
Posted by: hallali ()
Date: February 04, 2011 05:56AM

So me being female is a weak spot according to Adriano...Probably you mean my feminsm but who knows? Be proud, almost nobody likes you, some players wouldn't play in a team or even a game with you, but at least you nerve all of us (only to find our weak spots of course).

To get it right: If you really think I don't like you because of your macho comments towards me or Jenny in particular and females in general, you are wrong. This contributes only little. I don`t like you because of the way you treat your team members in a game and other players in the lobby. How you scold them like they are inferior idiots or grant a generous praise from the king of the hill. I don't like your nagging and bitching just to get any attention...aehh in search for weak spots as you call it. You may be proud being a pain in the ass for everyone. Personally I find it a very repellent characteristic in a human being, that's all.


Concerning the topic:
If anyone in future wants to complain about another player -> screenshot and PM to one of the admins or mods.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/04/2011 06:39AM by hallali.

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Re: Happy Conqueroring - except if you are jewish :-(
Posted by: DonDK ()
Date: February 04, 2011 06:41AM

I wrote Hallali a long pm almost a week ago, and still haven't got any reply.

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Re: Happy Conqueroring - except if you are jewish :-(
Posted by: hallali ()
Date: February 04, 2011 07:12AM

Welcome back in the community. As you stated it yourself in your PM there is no screenshot.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/04/2011 07:14AM by hallali.

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Re: Happy Conqueroring - except if you are jewish :-(
Posted by: DonDK ()
Date: February 04, 2011 07:15AM

LOL, that much for an answer to all your accusations. wauw. not even replying a pm... yay.

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Re: Happy Conqueroring - except if you are jewish :-(
Posted by: Xi ()
Date: February 04, 2011 10:43AM

The hypocrisy is this thread is truely sickening.

Let's get some facts straight. Anti-semitism is not racism. Jews are not a race. Jews are not a nationality. These are facts.

Anti-semitism should be viewed in the same light as Islamophobia, xenophobia, homophobia, and racism. Unacceptable is normal society.

However I have been personally insulted by Adriano for being Turkish, Muslim, etc etc. Did I make a thread about it? No. Did I call him for what he is, a racist? No. I have not been the only one on the receiving end of his abuse. Yet it is not punished nor pursued because this is the internet, people like him simply exist. The curse of anonymity. Also, it helps that he mistook me for Lancelot, and that I am not Turkish nor Muslim, but that is beside the point.

Now Adriano calling anyone a Nazi is not acceptable. Anti-semitic remarks do not remotely equate to Nazism. It dilutes what made the Nazis and the holocaust so terrible. Why is this overlooked even though he has clearly stated it in this very thread?

Either punish all racism, xenophobia, anti-semitism, homophobia and islamophobia, or tolerate all of it. One or the other.

The problem with the moderators in my eyes is that they don't moderate. They say they don't favour muting/kicking/banning players giving out abuse, because it is part of the game. That's fine, if that is whta the community wants to sign up for. The problem is this is not what the majority want to sign up for. The fact that Hallali doesn't find being abused a punishable offense is not the issue; other players might. That is what moderators should think carefully about. Banning someone for a day for calling someone Jew, Nazi, Nigger, Gay etc will only bring benefit to the community, and might even teach the offender to cool their temper in future or find another community to abuse.

So, my solution. Hallali/Master/Xuul/Alexey make a new topic, clearly stating the rules of communication between people within the game. Then if evidence is given that these rules have been broken by screenshot or otherwise, punishment is meted out. Clear and simple. If they do not feel they can perform this duty of care, they should hand their responsibility over to someone who can perform it.

The moderators should take a close look at those people who add something to the community, and those who merely makes playing a less enjoyable experience for everyone. That is what moderation is.

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Re: Happy Conqueroring - except if you are jewish :-(
Posted by: Master ()
Date: February 04, 2011 05:01PM

Well the rules are pretty much up to the moderators / admins own judgement since Alexey has not made a "rulebook".

As you have already said take a screenshot if u are offended and post in the forum (because I do not read my conq-pms very often), and the moderators and admins will take a look at it.

We cannot do anything based on accusations unless you have proof.

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Re: Happy Conqueroring - except if you are jewish :-(
Posted by: Xi ()
Date: February 04, 2011 10:35PM

Then make one, so everyone knows where the line in the sand is.

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Re: Happy Conqueroring - except if you are jewish :-(
Posted by: Attila ()
Date: February 04, 2011 11:03PM

Hallali, call it feminism if you wish. IMO anno 2011 that's a huge anachronism, just makes me wonder why a healthy girl in this day and age would want to be a feminist, I mean what is there still to achieve what our mothers and grandmothers haven't? If you would live where I am atm (Ukraine) I would say you have a point, and I would probably even support you, but I know few countries where women are more confused about their femininity than Germany. You gals rather need some kind of reverse feminism. But let's not discuss this here. You are of course free to uphold any beliefs you wish, as long as they don't limit other people's freedoms.

Xi, has it occured to you that I did that exactly to provoke you and figure out if you are in fact Lancelot? Of course you're not. Lancelot is a really nice guy, and I'm glad he's been back on a few times lately, while you're just... too much like me :) Well not entirely, you definitely rate a few points lower on the asshole scale. See, it's not possible to insult a person who's not the thing you call him. Just like I never claimed nosy's antisemitism *insulted* me. But is it offensive? Yes, highly. As I said before, because coming from him it's 100% serious, he appears to stand by it, and he never ever took back a yota from it, at least not when I was present. What I don't understand is how an obviously smart guy can overlook this difference. Unless intentionally. As for me and Turks, you should ask the real ones, as long as they don't have a problem with me, you're dismissed, sir.

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