Re: Strategy's of Paars.
Posted by: Limbo ()
Date: February 25, 2009 02:54PM

Master Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It is actually just as fast to advance at 40 k +1,
> 50 k +1 or 60 k +1. However it is 1 turn faster to
> advance at 70 k +1.
>
> 40 k +1 : 5 turns to build culture and 3 turns to
> build 2 farms = 8 turns.
> 50 k +1 : 4 turns to build 2 farms and 4 turns to
> build culture = 8 turns.
> 60 k +1: again 4 turns to build 2 farms and 4
> turns to build culture = 8 turns.
>
> 70 k +1: 6 turns to build 3 farms but only 3 turns
> to build culture = 9 turns.
That would make 60k +1 to 80k + 1 and if its 80k+1 i think it would not takee 4 turns to build culture.

Re: Strategy's of Paars.
Posted by: empError ()
Date: July 24, 2009 10:05AM

A development strategy that more and more people are using:

Develop/advance a line of lands towards your front lands. It is important to do this as fast as possible, so buying may be wise, especially at critical lands like Macedonia, if you are playing from Nic, Poland, if you're playing from Russia, or England, if you're playing from UK. (assuming east-west battles, in 2 vs 2).

I add this strat mainly because I want this post to be close to the one about strategic moves, by DeBoer.

Re: Strategy's of Paars.
Posted by: Paars ()
Date: July 24, 2009 12:37PM

Not really belongs to the basics anymore, but I did cover that partly in the ulster tactics.

Re: Strategy's of Paars.
Posted by: : ()
Date: August 13, 2009 01:02PM

Bump.

Re: Strategy's of Paars.
Posted by: Paars ()
Date: December 16, 2009 05:00PM

Bumping my own topic, how evil!

Re: Strategy's of Paars.
Posted by: LikeNoOthers ()
Date: December 16, 2009 09:07PM

You are the evil lord, Paars. No one can say anything else!

Re: Strategy's of Paars.
Posted by: jenny ()
Date: February 07, 2010 09:21AM

just updating this

Re: Strategy's of Paars.
Posted by: jenny ()
Date: June 05, 2010 09:05AM

bump

Re: Strategy's of Paars.
Posted by: Akiran ()
Date: June 14, 2010 11:46AM

i think advancing a plus 1 for influence is better at 40k than 30k but thats just me

M-K

Re: Strategy's of Paars.
Posted by: Myopia ()
Date: August 07, 2010 08:03PM

advancing @ 40k = 5 turns 30k = 6 turns? What is the benefit?

Re: Strategy's of Paars.
Posted by: DeusLuxMea ()
Date: August 08, 2010 01:05AM

well.. a 30k province takes 6 turns to advance. a 40k takes 5 turns. but to get a province from 30k till 40k takes 2 turns, correct?..
so if you have a 30k province it takes 6 turns to advance it for influence, but if you need to get it to 40k first it takes 2 turns more+ 5 turns for advance = 7 turns. ?
or am i getting this all wrong?

Re: Strategy's of Paars.
Posted by: Master ()
Date: August 08, 2010 02:29AM

30 k +1 is 7 turns to get to 40 k as well.
6 turns advancing + 1 turn for a farm = 7 turns in total.

Re: Strategy's of Paars.
Posted by: DeusLuxMea ()
Date: August 08, 2010 04:00AM

yeah. i think you are right..
got myself confused with this question. anywho. i dont care what is best or not, rarely use that tactic. :)
but thanks for making things clearer for me Master, much appreciated

Re: Strategy's of Paars.
Posted by: Master ()
Date: August 08, 2010 05:00AM

yeah it is not the best tactic.
Np

Re: Strategy's of Paars.
Posted by: Paars ()
Date: August 09, 2010 04:03AM

Those were just suposed to be basics, but yeah its kinda outdated. Still, a good reference point for beginning players etc.

Re: Strategy's of Paars.
Posted by: Master ()
Date: August 09, 2010 09:36AM

I was actually just disagreeing with what malakira said:
"Re: Strategy's of Paars. Posted by: Akiran ()
Date: June 14, 2010 11:46AM


i think advancing a plus 1 for influence is better at 40k than 30k but thats just me

M-K"

I think they still work fine even for many experienced players.

Re: Strategy's of Paars.
Posted by: Akiran ()
Date: August 09, 2010 02:21PM

alright just me

Re: Strategy's of Paars.
Posted by: Paars ()
Date: September 23, 2010 09:58PM

Ok wanted to add and update some stuff.

I´ve seen a lot of people build farms at capital or backlands when they are advanced to the best. Which I consider the listing still in first post.
+2 60k
+1 70k
+0 60k

When your countries are at this, don't farm them until at least all what you consider your territory to be yours is advanced.
Actually, usually you don't need to farm you backlands or capital extra at all. For a few reasons.

Lets go over the simple Math reason first. if you farm your capital to 70k it takes you turns. 2 turn you could for example have gotten 90 to 94 gold. lets say you have either some developped, or even primitive country. With a decent population 50k for example, which is increasing productivity by other countries.

if you would spend that gold on a 50k primitive country, you would have 30 to 34 gold left when buying Development.This now 50 country, faster increases influence, faster starts spreading influence. + its way closer to being advanced.
Which means it can start getting higher productivity even faster. What extra do you gain in building a farm in capital? 6 or 7 gold perhaps.

Consider you saving 23 extra gold + the at least 90 gold you gain from capital, if you'd buy up a developped country, that country will increase productivity waaaay more then your capital. And the extra influence spreading.

Ok that was the simple math part.

Now from strategical point of view. Capital and backcountries are not your frontcountries(Duh) thus, they have no need for high production of soldiers.
Your frontline countries do, so increase those farms rather over some unimportant backlands.

If you'd be ulster vs Grenada in a 3v3. You would consider at least until England yours, perhaps flanders, depending if south has roma Normandy as well, in corsica's case its questionable.
If you farm flanders and England extra, you can gain faster armies at the front, while if you farmed norway extra its pretty useless to create armies there.
More farms, higher production + max soldiers buying increased.

This all comes as common sense to me, to a lot of people it does. But others don't I've seen decent and even strong players still apply this. I understand people feel hesistant to build in front(cuz you might lose it). But in the Ulster case, if you were to lose Flanders or England(Permanently), doesn't that pretty much mean you are done anyway? With or without farmed backlands.In this game let your rational thinking overrule your irrational choises(I feel saver if).

Well that's that.

Small update over my first post.
primitive +2 countries next to capital. In case they are 30k or 40k already, start developping right away.
In case of 20k, its better to start developping right away too.(With an exception if you can farm in 1 turn)
There's 2 very simple reasons for why to develop now instead of farm. First of, less farms, the rebellion chance is lower. Second reason with less farms it becomes supportive/devoted way faster.Usually when your done developping its supportive, 2 more farms and its devoted or almost devoted. Which means you can faster advance it, but the most important reason, you start spreading influence faster to neighboring countries.

Now a perhaps unexpected one.
10k +2, if you conquer this you can obviously build farm and then start developping. But, if you conqueror it you could also first build 1 soldier. it increases their support by a lot, then you can build a farm.And another 1 in turn. Then you start developping it at 30k while it already likes you pretty good.Some people could care less perhaps, but you do gain 1 extra soldier because of this, which at start is a nice bonus.

Ok the next thing, is something I had to test 1 more time for me not to be mistaken, its more of fun fact. Maybe some people already know this. Besides that I need to test it(or someone else) better to see if it could actually used in games.(3v3 NO) (2v2 probably not) (1v1 maybe, also depending on distance of capitals)
I ll just take my last testing game as an example.
I started in holland pushing soldiers attacking my way through until I reached podolia,which was 40k +1 at the time. I build 1 farm in cap and put it to gold. Hannover was 20k primitive, brandenburg 10k delete and poland 10k developped
I just put them to gold.

When I had enough gold I bought 1 extra farm in Podolia(no special reason) Then I bought culture there.Ofcourse brandenburg,poland and podolia still rebellious because they couldn't gain influence from primitive hannover.
I put Podolia to diplomats to increase production etc. After a few turns it became supportive and this is what I wanted to test again. Will it start spreading influence? And yes, it did. Poland became restless, and soon content.

So, you do not nessecarily need your capital for you to spread influence first. But, buying on so early an advanced country + that country wasting turns on diplo's I doubt if its worth it. However, imo a fun fact and since not much things changes, or you can learn its nice to knows there sometimes still is something.
Obviously I will test this better, I hope for some nice results but doubting it. And in case of good results it won't be long before everyone uses it. ;)

Ok another little fact, which is kinda obvious but some people don't realize it.
In my first post, I showed that first saving gold then buying up your capital(if saved in capital) you lose 2 turns.
But, if you have a 40k+2 country developped country witch likes you. And you do happen to have the 113 gold extra. This is what possibly could/would happen if you bougt culture there.

113 gold 4 turns to go till advancement (if you dont buy)
0 gold 1 turn till advancement

3 turns to go
40k advanced

2 turns to go
50k advanced

1 turn to go

60k advanced

40k advanced with still the 113 gold
60k around 45-47 gold

50k 113
60k 90-94 gold

60k 113 gold
60k 135-141 gold -> The actual diffrence here is a profit of +- 25 gold Also, because you advanced it faster it spreads influence faster(if need be).

Small tip:
To some players, don't always directly start farming till 60k with your capital, it really depends on your enemy as well. I see some good players still force this, while they are heavily under siege.

A rewrite of a calculating/logical mistake I made in first topic.
The buying in primitive countries always cost gold.
However, its still true that a soldier takes a production of 5 gold to be created in a dev/advanced country. But, if the gold aint rounded up to a number divideble by 5, the rest of the gold is thrown away. For example, if a country produces 19 gold, it can produce 3 soldiers while throwing 4 gold away. If you put it to gold and bought the soldiers somewhere else, it would save you 1 gold actually.
Well this last part of information won't effect your game that big, but I felt I needed to correct that.

Ok something for consideration.
At start when you take a country its natural to leave it empty the first turn after that if you need the soldier for attacking. Usually the next turn its reinforced by a new soldier. But what if you didn't? What if the country is not highly important or perhaps it is, but you could use the extra soldier (and those of other countries) to gain more countries. There's usually a 15% to 25% chance for it to revolt. It could be worth to risk it sometimes for an important gain on a rich country, depending on how important your country is you leave empty, on how much the chance is the soldier actually will help you with gaining that rich country, + How rich is that rich country. about a 20% gamble on losing a country doesn't sound thát bad. Well just something you may want to consider, its really playing with luck. As you all know its not something I should do. :D

About Diplomats, they are just weird. Its unpredicteble how they influence some countries at certain amounts.I am convinced tho, that buying them is a complete waste.But one game I build a diplo in a 40k+1 primitive country next to my capital @ turn 2 which was pretty much max rebellious. The next turn it already switched to restless, this is 1 of the reasons why I call them weird. But I have more examples, which im now to lazy to name.

Considering the +1 countries if you should build them to 50k first when possible or not. Yes if its 2 turns AND it doesn't have to spread influence to neighbors. Else it might be better ocasionally(I actually always do) to build culture at 40k.

Well, my personal tactics differ a little from those, but usually overall are the same. Theres no specific diffrence in what I sometimes do nor based on anything. And really not even sure if its better. I just like to play with some variation.
That being said, I posted because of the backland farming thing, but also a good moment to write the others things I had on my mind. Hopefully this post can bring even the slightest diffrence into the game.

For the people wanting to know. Yes, I must have to much free time on my hands. And loving it.

Greetings

Paars



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/23/2010 10:02PM by Paars.

Re: Strategy's of Paars.
Posted by: acro ()
Date: September 24, 2010 02:08AM

The important thing is to see everything you buy as an investment, and ask yourself whether there are better investments. Paying out 113 gold to get 135 gold in 7 turns might be a very bad deal, if it turns out that the extra 113 gold could buy you enough soldiers to take a good enemy front land costing him over 40 gold and giving you a lot of momentum.

On the other hand, it might sometimes be worth buying culture even when you'll come out financially negative if the influence advantages are big enough and the money is not better spent elsewhere. Every situation is different and most of the time you just have to go by a mixture of calculation and instinct.

I would say an important thing to remember is that, just like in the real world, swapping 100 gold now for 101 gold in 5 turns is probably never good, so don't just look at the simple maths.

Also, in some situations, farming safer lands because they're more likely to be retained does have its merits, but more like northumberland instead of normandy than norway instead of england.

Good post Paars, gets people thinking about their bad habits.

Re: Strategy's of Paars.
Posted by: Akiran ()
Date: September 25, 2010 07:34AM

and paars 7 gold extra is untrue its 7 gold extra for every turn afterwards so

the longer u think the game will take and the less lands u can spare the more farming and developing u need to do

M-K

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