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Re: Banning of the following needed
Posted by: Lancelot ()
Date: February 19, 2009 05:22PM

Ok, I will move to a more liberal side...

Actually what I think about saying bad things about a nation or race is that they can be thought as acceptable to some extend. However, people are being more sensitive about some issues than the others. The case of Jews is mainly because of WW2. But hey, wake up, it was long time ago.

Let me give some examples of some "racist" phrases against two nations I live in:

Barbarian Turks!
Stupid Americans!

Well, I believe all of you have heard these before. Let me go on with another one:

I wanna wipe out all the Turkish people from the world!

If I hear something like this I will really lmao. Change Turkish to Ducth and here comes the laughs of Paars, to Danish and I can hear Harry and Master (ok maybe not Harry, he may come after me with a baseball stick:), I won't say change to American because I know if Jenny pisses off she will really come and find me, hehe. Now, here comes the next word, yes yes, it is the one you think, ok slowly put it there, and viola, you thought it yourself, now people see you as a racist and an anti-Semite.

Hence, what is racist and what is not? I can say every nation has some precious things, and touching those things are out of boundaries for others. When it comes to that point, I believe a mute button can calm down the environment. However, who to judge if it is inside or out of the boundary and use the button? Well, that's another topic...

Peace,

Lance

PS: I'm sorry not to give a quote from another person, but I believe my post is philosophical enough.
PS2: I recognized only girls gave quotes, so I believe I'm on the safe side.
PS3: -Girls: Only girls???!!! So you think you are better just because you are a guy???
- Lance: Oh, cmon, I didn't mean that...
-Girls: Yes you did, and you are a racist too. Look at what you said about poor Turks. We hate you. Admin ban him, and ban him twice. Die Lance die. You dirty bastard.
PS4: I mean no insult for girls. Plz don't make me banned:)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/19/2009 05:24PM by Lancelot.

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Re: Banning of the following needed
Posted by: acro ()
Date: February 19, 2009 09:28PM

Jenny, when you are degraded for being American, I'm pretty sure people are almost always joking. Likewise when I last night made a comment about women taking longer in the shower, I was not trying to insult anyone. I am not sexist, but I think sexist jokes and light-hearted comments are acceptable. There is a massive difference between making a joke about women not being able to read maps, and actually taking human rights away from women, which I highly condemn.

With racism, the same applies. I have Indian friends, and when I am with them I will make racist jokes at them, and they will make racist jokes at me, and that's fine because both parties laugh along and no-one is insulted. But I would generally avoid racist jokes on an online lobby because you don't know who will be insulted, just the same as I wouldn't tell a racist joke to a bus full of people I don't know.

The bottom line is: in this case it seems that what was said wasn't even supposed to be a joke, but was said maliciously to cause offence, which isn't on. I do want to make sure that as a community we know where to draw the line, and I disagree with Jenny's post that seems to say freedom of speech is an "all or nothing" idea.

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Re: Banning of the following needed
Posted by: DirtyHarry ()
Date: February 19, 2009 11:54PM

Jenny let me ask you following: is it okay to log into conquerorgame under a name like jewdestroyer, Muslimkiller, killthegay and then begin to flood the lobby with messages that says "kill the gays", "kill the jew", "kill the muslims" and such no brain statements? For me to see they got no other purpose than to ruin the game for others - thats their intention! No one wants to ban everyone who makes a little fart in the lobby that smells....Then I should have been banned a long time ago - and you too along with a lot of others. Nobody wants that.

And you ask me to step back and think about it, well, I would say that this whole discussion points out that I am giving this a lot of thoughts(which you can agree upon or not), and maybe I should repeat myself from my first post, since I got the feeling you only read some of it: " In my opinion people can say fuck, call each other names, argue and so on for all I care - but going to the extremes and having no other point than to ruin the fun for everyone else is a good reason to give ban - after a warning though" - so maybe its you that makes your conclusions a bit fast without really reading what ive said. After-all, you did first begin to debate after you had made a short post, where you almost put freedom of speech and "your mom" jokes in the same sentence.

Furthermore I wonder, why no one is discussing Lancelots suggestion with the mute button? As I already have said, I like the idea, then people can judge for themselves who they want to listen to.

Giving a 2 hour ban or a day-ban to a unregistered name, that just logs in with the purpose of spamming, flooding or cowardly make extreme racist remarks (saying you want to annihilate every jew on the surface of the earth, I do personally think is crossing a line.) is from my point of view not punishing people very hard. Is this unreasonable use of power or a big violation of your freedom of speech?

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Re: Banning of the following needed
Posted by: acro ()
Date: February 20, 2009 12:50AM

Harry is definitely on my wavelength. It would be ridiculous to stop swearing, or occasional insults, but when people are going too far and are repeatedly saying things that have no purpose other than to cause offence and ruin other people's game, something has to be done.

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Re: Banning of the following needed
Posted by: -RIPPE- ()
Date: February 20, 2009 01:52AM

we are old enough to handle such things as racism and discrimination in a adult way. look at this thread, the community discusses how to treat theses guys the right way, it only shows that we as conqueror community stand as one when it comes to these themes. so, instead of moderators or bannings every one of us is in need to take position when racist, sexist or any other –ist things occur. We don’t need any other one to defend us, we can do it ourselves. i think it’s the best choice to show these people that they are not welcome unless they change attitude or move their fuckin ass out. banning still is the last line of defense and shouldn’t be taken into discussion for such minor problems. (ban people that act hostile, as cheaters or hackers, not people that talk hostile) you will always be confronted with things you don’t like, fading out these things wont change em, but takin position and showing where you stand, will (maybe). i havnt seen any jewdestroyer lately, people come spam and leave just like the ocean tide, this is the internet. BE A CONQUEROR!

Ps lance, isnt it stupid turks and barbarian american?

Ps2 a funny invention would be, if registered players could shrink the typesize of the hater, e.g. if 3 registered players write *name it will shrink a bit, if 5 registered players write *name
It will shrink a lot. this would be a relaxed way of solving this problem with democratic elements, that avoids authority and raises the value of the registered conqueror (even though i am against registration or any limitation of speech).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/20/2009 01:55AM by -RIPPE-.

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Re: Banning of the following needed
Posted by: Master ()
Date: February 20, 2009 06:25AM

Unless a mute button is difficult to make then I don’t see why it is a problem.

1. It wouldn’t affect the other players.
2. It would be an individual decision.
3. It would solve the problem.

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Re: Banning of the following needed
Posted by: jenny ()
Date: February 20, 2009 07:44AM

acro then do u volunteer urself to be god, and determine what is only moderately offensive and what is fullblown offensive? What may not bother you, may be a large offense to someone else, it is all relative.



And rippe I like your idea, enough to finally cave and make a second account, and a thrid and even a 5th so i can identify master for his true self..... a big bully

and harry dont get pissed im just trying to play devils advocate... maybe i am doing a poor job at it.

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Re: Banning of the following needed
Posted by: acro ()
Date: February 20, 2009 11:06AM

I agree Jenny, it is all relative to the person who is making the judgement, so how are we supposed to decide what counts as enough to be banned? It's a difficult job, and every justice system in the world has its flaws.

All I'm saying, is that banning all insults or vulgarities to avoid any grey area is not the solution.

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Re: Banning of the following needed
Posted by: Limbo ()
Date: February 28, 2009 05:28PM

haha nice quote tiff.yeah i agree with all of you ( but whew i did not have time to read all of that) this original topic has led to some pretty major conversation.......


"it is all relative to the person who is making the judgement, so how are we supposed to decide what counts as enough to be banned? It's a difficult job, and every justice system in the world has its flaws"


"we are old enough to handle such things as racism and discrimination in a adult way. look at this thread, the community discusses how to treat theses guys the right way, it only shows that we as conqueror community stand as one when it comes to these themes. so, instead of moderators or bannings every one of us is in need to take position when racist, sexist or any other –ist things occur. We don’t need any other one to defend us, we can do it ourselves"

"Barbarian Turks!
Stupid Americans!

Well, I believe all of you have heard these before. Let me go on with another one:

I wanna wipe out all the Turkish people from the world!

If I hear something like this I will really lmao. Change Turkish to Ducth and here comes the laughs of Paars, to Danish and I can hear Harry and Master (ok maybe not Harry, he may come after me with a baseball stick:), I won't say change to American because I know if Jenny pisses off she will really come and find me, hehe. Now, here comes the next word, yes yes, it is the one you think, ok slowly put it there, and viola, you thought it yourself, now people see you as a racist and an anti-Semite."

although i rather think lots of these posts are talking to jenny or jenny speaking :P

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Re: Banning of the following needed
Posted by: Limbo ()
Date: February 28, 2009 05:29PM

change american to muslim here comes the roars of zakistan

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Re: Banning of the following needed
Posted by: Paars ()
Date: March 04, 2009 09:33AM

I don't care much for short racism-like stuff shouted, but these guys went on for about an hour how all jews should be killed etc. And that Hitlers ambition was still to be fullfilled.

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