@RIPPE: I don't go to church, or want nails through my hands and feet. I never said I was part of any religion that believes anything, but I stated the opposite.

I was simply pointing out that your post was full of bullshit.

@Hallali: I said grammar and spelling, not grammar and style. Speaking German is an excuse for being a dumbass?

Gives good reasoning for RIPPEs bullshit, I guess.

jenny, after WWII germany was bombed back into stone age. countless stories have taken place then, like the one you told here. the generosity and sacrifice of that girl is just a romantic view on poverty and the very need to support each other to survive.

Scum: Speaking German is an excuse for being a dumbass?

Man give her a break. At least she didn't drastically change the meaning. Maybe I need to link to a thread where you replaced disadvantage with advantage, twice, (sort of confusing) and then called me petty for picking you up on it: [www.conquerorgame.com]

Why can't we dicuss things with each other and have sophisticated arguments without sinking into this cycle of insults? Yes, sometimes it is necessary to point out mistakes (as I did above), but we don't have to be offensive about it.

No doubt I will probably get some insult my way as a result of this post, I just wish we could be a bit more mature about things.

Rippe do you believe the world would be a better place if we didn’t help out our neighbors? I am wrong and misspoke about those actions not occurring in Europe, although presently I believe they are few and far between. Maybe it is a feminine affection but to have a world where kind deeds are scorned upon and everyone only looks out for number 1 seems like no world I would want to live in.

Hallali as for the wealth in the church, and I am not condoning the faults, in recent decades that does not seem to be the case, especially at the roots of he church, the priest nuns and brothers who take vows of poverty, even The pope does not take a salary nor does he have a bank account. I don’t know how schools and hospitals are run in your country but in the states there is complete separation of church and government. It is the generosity of the people and tuition that funds the schools.

Jenny: The pope does not take a salary nor does he have a bank account

With arguments like that you are not going to win this one. The pope does not need a salary or a bank account.

If we're talking about Catholics by the way, I just want to throw in my utter hatred of the pope, and most past popes, for the policy on using condoms. It makes so much hard work of others to help the third world completely worthless, because so many of them will always put the pope's word first. He is indirectly killing hundreds of people every day.

wtf

this is a strategy game not a frickin philosphy debate



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/08/2009 09:36PM by brighteyes.

I wanted to refer to the condom issue too, but then I thought there are so many other issues that drive me mad, so I dropped it. The condom isssue is by far the most dangerous statement the pope released. To say condoms worsen the aids problem is just stupid. And to say so holding such an office is even worse.

Acro this isn’t about winning or losing but expressing ones opinions and having them refined by others.

The Vatican has just published the transcripts of the Pope's comments about Aids in Africa and it said that "condoms risk making the problem worse" He declares that the Church's historic teaching that chastity outside marriage and fidelity within is the only sure way to prevent the spread of killer diseases such as Aids. Whatever your views on the subject, that simple statement is undoubtedly true.

Now when taken out of context your statements sounds awful. In reality you are asking the leader of the catholic faith to compromise what his church sees as God's truth. Now regardless of your beliefs I think you can accept the statement that the pope is saying what he believes is the truth. Now his job is in a sense to stand up for the truth even when society as a whole is against him, (think back to the earliest days of the church when Christians where under persecution) and that is exactly what he is doing saying that the use of condoms risks worsening the problem bc if u are using condoms then u are not abstaining and there fore going against the church.

The pope ended this subject saying The solution lay, in a "spiritual and human awakening" he does not want the people going around having reckless sex, as you suggest, but urges humanity to see the beauty in abstinence before marriage and having fidelity with in it.

He no play-a-da game , he no make-a-da rules.

Where did I suggest people should go around having reckless sex and not abstain before marriage? Abstinence is the best way of avoiding getting AIDS, I don't question that. I also believe it is a good thing to wait until you are in a relationship where you have already developed feelings of love before engaging in a sexual relationship, whether you are religious or not.

In no way does this take away the need for condoms. If nothing else, you cannot deny the highly important role of family planning.

If the pope were to withdraw his view on condoms, he wouldn't make the view on abstinence reduntant. Your argument is similar to saying that the state shouldn't offer help for drug addicts because they shouldn't take drugs in the first place.

the TRUTH is that papa bene aka sepp ratze has learned his moral in the hitlerjugend, here a pic, and afterwards he was shooting planes for enlightment.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/11/2009 07:00AM by -RIPPE-.

heres papa bene in the uniform he wore before.

See this is what I don't understand.

Our generation has been taught one important thing above all others. It's not about religion, sex or table manners. It's that you don't bring up Germany's Nazi past in a conversation with a German if you can't help it. You just Don't Mention The War.

They even have strict laws in former Nazi countries Germany and Austria so that talking about Hitler and the Nazis is now a big taboo. So what does the rest of the world do? They say, ok the Germans have some understandable insecurities about WW2 so let's be nice and all put it behind us and get on with living.

But what happens when something with the slightest Nazi link comes into the limelight? They scream blue murder. The Pope was in the Hitler Youth? Never mind it was probably the proudest moment in his young life, training for what he thought would be in the service of his country. Never mind he did not know about the abuses of the Nazis. Never mind that he was a CHILD. Never mind fighting for your country is a great honour. What do you do for the service of your country may I ask? Play an online Risk game?

Theirs not to make reply,
Theirs not to reason why,
Theirs but to do and die

German Diner: Now would you please stop talking about the War?
Waiter: Me?? You started it!
German Diner: We did NOT start it!
Waiter: Yes you did, you invaded Poland!

-edit- [www.youtube.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/11/2009 09:07AM by Hubic Hair.

It's the rest of the world who think it's not ok to talk about the war with Germans, not the German people themselves. I have had several conversations with German people about the Nazi period and never felt like I was touching a nerve. It's not a case of "don't mention the war", but rather just don't be an idiot about it and say something stupid like "Ha we beat you in the war you nazis!" I believe there are laws against using Nazi slogans or symbols, but I am sure there are not laws against discussing the subject, that would be ridiculous.

Ignorance is never an excuse for crime, but wikipedia says this:

"...Ratzinger was enrolled in the Hitler Youth, as membership was required for all 14-year old German boys after December 1939, but was an unenthusiastic member and refused to attend meetings."

implying that he could not have not been in the Hitler Youth, and that he did not actively participate, so I don't think there is really any blame there, if of course wikipedia represents the truth (often the case).

Regarding the "shooting planes", I guess it's hard to excuse that. Maybe they didn't know about what the Nazis were doing behind closed doors, but even without such horrors, the war itself was based on very poor justifications, and everyone must have been aware of that.

Acro,

very seldom do I tell someone their view is idiotic, I absolutely hate doing it but all I can do is laugh at this statement

________________________________________________________________________

"If the pope were to withdraw his view on condoms, he wouldn't make the view on abstinence redundant. Your argument is similar to saying that the state shouldn't offer help for drug addicts because they shouldn't take drugs in the first place.''

_________________________________________________________________________


That is the most ridiculous analogy I have ever heard

this is a better analogy that fits that fits your subject, the state is against drug use but they will pass out clean needles allowing the people to use as many drugs as they want while not spreading the disease.


In case you are a little slow I will break it down even simpler ( you are English I know) you are trying to parallel the problem of drug use with the rapid spread of HIV. Fair enough now this is where your analogy hits the wall, you say just bc the state is against this rapid spread of the disease, does not mean that they shouldn’t offer help, by the form of PASSING OUT FREE CONDOMS. Or in theory if we back up to our analogy passing out clean needles (clean needles would be an effective way of allowing the behavior to continue but keeping it “safe”)

And Acro, if the pope withdrew his view on condoms his view on abstinence would not be redundant but rather he would be contradicting himself.

Think Before you write.

acro Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Regarding the "shooting planes", I guess it's hard
> to excuse that.

Hard to excuse that? Those were not British Airways jets taking tourists to Honolulu acro. Planes meant high explosive and incendiary bombs destined for cities. Places like Dresden, Hamburg and Nuremburg. Just because the Germans lost and were the aggressors in the war doesn't mean shooting enemy soldiers is inexcusable. Read some British history if you want a list of unjustified wars. The difference? Britain won most of them and who is going to argue with the victors? I find it a sickening double standard that there is a statue of Arthur Harris outside St Clement Danes Church in London whilst he is directly responsible for over 100,000 civilian deaths. I see no German statues of men who bombed London, Rotterdam or Warsaw with great "success".

My point was that bringing the Pope's past into a religious debate is not pertinent.

jenny Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> if the pope withdrew his view on condoms
> his view on abstinence would not be redundant but
> rather he would be contradicting himself.

Why would that be? If a human being (just to remind you of what we are talking about here) does a human act of sex with a HIV positive partner, married or not, God has decreed that person should die a horrible slow death and condemn any innocent children to the same death? Yet with a very simple plastic invention, long after the bible was "written", this could be, if not totally averted, seriously reduced?

The Pope and the Catholics have made many mistakes in the past and in the present. One of those mistakes is this condom issue another one is the vaticans opinion of .. dont know the english word.. Its people mainly men, who have sex with kids. Anyway the vatican is know to hide any priest commiting these crimes. And they cant be prosicuted because they live in the vatican and is under their jurisction.

**Sorry for my poor english**

And it seems to me that this topic as gone from "Does God Excist" to "What is Religion doing wrong, thing" We have know listed some of the Christians mistakes.. But what about the Islam and their Sha ria Law, where a women who had just been raped by 5 men was found guilty in cheating on her husband and was wiped 200 times..

Schopenhauer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> where a women who had just been
> raped by 5 men was found guilty in cheating on her
> husband and was wiped 200 times..

Because Saudi Wahhabism is an unspeakable horror which is better left out of intellectual debate. Islam and Shari'a law are differently interpreted across the world.

So we will just continue talking trash about christians.. Righty then.. Got that.. :D Time to dig in my old dirt bag.. But you dont hear all that crap about the protestants..