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Team Games are Killing Conqueror !
Posted by: Tiffany ()
Date: June 20, 2009 09:08AM

Many have asked why Conqueror has slumped in popularity. Some blaming the new build, others the Solo option. But I think it is the team games. And not just because they are elitist and exclusive of novice involvement, both of which are true. But because the nature of a team game prevents so much creative game play. It is that which is stifling the game.

In a True game. ( The term FFA I object to, as it does not fully represent the nature of a true game of Conqueror).
You may join at any time, you can leave at any time. you can be at any level of competence.
You may choose to defend or attack. To form alliances or be a solo hunter. Try to help another player being mauled, or sit back and just be glad it's not you. You can sit tight and wait, secretly preparing to pounce.
The trash talk can often be real and purposeful, it can lead to war or intimidate enough to prevent it.
People leaving and joining a game does not ruin it but can dramatically change the politics.
Such a game can be exhilarating - high drama - it can test the courage, the nerve, the daring, the patience, the luck and even the morality of a player.... and be great fun.

A team game in contrast ...while certain to provide a well contested scrap, and great to hone your fighting skills, is stultifyingly dull in comparison.
Your opponents are pre-established your allies likewise.
The game almost plays itself as the opening moves are all so regimented.
You trade blow after blow after blow until someone starts to buckle...Press on the attack ...game over.

We were all once Newbies and most of us have a player or a few to thank for helping us get a grip on playing the game and for making it fun.
I would ask you top players who i never see play anything other than your team games,.... when was the last time you helped or instructed a newbie in how to play this game ?

And if it is over a year ago.... shame on you !



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/20/2009 09:30AM by Tiffany.

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Re: Team Games are Killing Conqueror !
Posted by: Hubic Hair ()
Date: June 20, 2009 11:24AM

Tiff I respect your opinion but I think your wrong. Like super wrong. A big home-baked cake with icing and those gold and silver little balls sprinkled on filled with wrong. I think you are more wrong than when Luke and Leia kissed in the second film. Or wait is it called the fifth film. Also, you know when luke is being trained by yoda on that shithole of a planet? The film cuts to the aluminium falcon going to that cloud city and then they are all captured. Cut back to luke, OH LOOK HIS TRAINING IS FINISHED. Yoda teaches him everything about the force in about half a day. WRONG.

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Re: Team Games are Killing Conqueror !
Posted by: Paars ()
Date: June 21, 2009 12:29AM

I disagree Keira.

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Re: Team Games are Killing Conqueror !
Posted by: : ()
Date: June 21, 2009 03:24AM

I've tried to teach Yason to play like 3 weeks ago ;)
Shame on me.

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Re: Team Games are Killing Conqueror !
Posted by: Master ()
Date: June 21, 2009 04:27AM

If FFAs are so amazing and teamgames suck then why do 80 % of all the players play teamgames?

If a newbie wants help then I expect him to ask for help. I don't see it as my responsibility to find them and ask them if they want help.

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Re: Team Games are Killing Conqueror !
Posted by: hallali ()
Date: June 21, 2009 04:33AM

She is right. It is really difficult for beginners to gather experience. A noob plays a teamgame once and never again. And the comments about dynamics in a classic conquerorgame is true too. There are dynamics in a teamgame, but rather limited. Quite early is a tendency and maybe you can turn it round or not and often the games are slow deaths. But teamgames are well liked and I think nothing will change that.

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Re: Team Games are Killing Conqueror !
Posted by: Scum ()
Date: June 21, 2009 07:04PM

Good point on the dynamics, however we can see from the CT09 that the experience level in the general player has increased. There are so many good players that pose a serious challenge.

I personally believe that this is due to team games and the fact that 4 good players want to play a 3v3, they will talk 2 new players into joining and will talk them through how to play. Why? Because they want to win. You can not get that kind of motivation to train new players in a FFA. The nit-picking of every move, what first moves, what to farm, what to develop, where to produce troops.

50% of the time, those 3v3's with 2 new players playing against eachother rely on how well the team mates instructed them. This makes training more serious and the skill level of the average player increases much faster then it used to.

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Re: Team Games are Killing Conqueror !
Posted by: Captain Planet ()
Date: June 21, 2009 09:30PM

I concur

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Re: Team Games are Killing Conqueror !
Posted by: -RIPPE- ()
Date: June 22, 2009 01:50AM

the structure of a teamgame is pretty simple and has fighting and development as the core element. the frame is set and there are extremely limited variations. thus the experience is pretty limited itself (even though its much fun).
ffas offer a more complex experience due to the free structure. in the guide i wrote i recommend new players to play teamgames for a good training in the basic development and fighting skills, but only to prepare them for ffa where the real show is at. there are many diffrent ways to play ffas but diplomacy and strategy are surely the core skills needed in a ffa. and what i like best in ffas is that they reflect the personality of a player by far more then teamgames do. that is what got lost due to tamgames, that is why many players stopped playing, that is why the whole mood of playing conq has changed since teamgames got popular.
both ways to play can be very satisfying and fun and i can just recommend to play teamgames and ffas, but the king of conq is still FFA!

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Re: Team Games are Killing Conqueror !
Posted by: MrScientist ()
Date: June 22, 2009 01:54AM

"You trade blow after blow after blow until someone starts to buckle...Press on the attack ...game over. "

If this describes a team game, then FFA is just the process of looking at a flow of random numbers going back and forth, the balance of power only to be tipped if a player had started earlier than the other, or a few guys going 2/3 vs 1 to achieve something. And for a decent player its just not fun, or should not be fun for it described the pathetic level of ego, to kill off some noobs in such a game.

Agreeing that the teamgames appear more elitist and more should be done to include others in them, the ball is mostly in the noob's corner. Often they have won a few games ffa, and consider themselves to be too great to take any hint or advice from others.

PS. We could be more 'adventurous' in picking maps. A few of the nicest games i played lately were with cyprus for example.

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Re: Team Games are Killing Conqueror !
Posted by: : ()
Date: June 22, 2009 04:26AM

It's negativity that ruins Conqueror.

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Re: Team Games are Killing Conqueror !
Posted by: Captain Planet ()
Date: June 22, 2009 04:37AM

FFA's are more free but, as aforementioned, turns into a 2/3v1 mess and we fall back into the same old argument of some who will, some who won't and some who are hypocritical about the whole thing.

By the way, it's been a while since I have played, can't at the moment. Does the game still fall apart when host transfers? Might come back for a hostkilling rampage when I get a connection :)

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Re: Team Games are Killing Conqueror !
Posted by: Tiffany ()
Date: June 22, 2009 06:32AM

Thanks Hallali, Rippe, Jynxx for understanding my complaint.
Master and Mr Scientist forgive my rhetoric, I used it just to make my general case.
But I will take Adrien's point and avoid negativity here.
I am not saying FFA's are better than team games, I would largely agree at moment team games are far better. For the very reason Master makes...all the best players are in them.
I am just saying both games have there place and the FFA by it's nature is a better environment for more varied game styles and abilities but more importantly in developing and keeping new players.
It is not enough Master, especially coming from you, to say you expect a newbie to come to you and ask for help. When does this happen if you rarely ever play FFAs ? Have you left your telephone number somewhere ???
All I am asking is you give a little back.
Don't treat FFAs as just a place to wait for a team game to start, indeed some of you even call them just that.
Try remember how it was for you when you started.
I recall I loved the whole idea of the game but was wary of my limited skill. When i returned it was nice to spot a friend or mentor to know i could survive with him along side me. To hear the trash talk to see the in-fighting. To get caught up in a clash of Titans or just to watch two of them slugging it out. To find myself quickly accepted and part of a great little vibrant community.

If i was a newbie starting now I would just be left to think,
"These AIs aren't very friendly they must be modelled on the players round here."

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Re: Team Games are Killing Conqueror !
Posted by: LikeNoOthers ()
Date: June 22, 2009 06:59AM

Atleast the Ais follows: If you have nothing good to say, then dont say anything at all.

i see your point, and i will also confess, that i am noob hostile when it to teamgames with 5 very good, and 1 noob. Although, i am willing to help anyone i hear is new, if they want to.

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Re: Team Games are Killing Conqueror !
Posted by: -RIPPE- ()
Date: June 22, 2009 08:54AM

the 3/2 vs 1 mentality in ffas results from the movement of most good players to teamgames. once most players reach a certain degree of skill 3/2 vs 1 is just no option anymore cuz its just bad style and many good fights got destroyed by this shit. i will always instantly support those getting attacked by 2 or more and instantly stop attacking my enemy when he/she gets attacked by a second one.
still 3/2 vs 1 is part of the game and cryin about it hasnt stopped any noob yet.

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Re: Team Games are Killing Conqueror !
Posted by: Master ()
Date: June 22, 2009 10:02AM

Is it my responsibility to find the new players and then ask them if they want help?

I play this game for fun, and I do not have fun when I play it against unskilled players who do not give me a challenge. This is the reason why I only play with skilled players 95 % of the time. Is this a crime?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/22/2009 10:05AM by Master.

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Re: Team Games are Killing Conqueror !
Posted by: Squeegie ()
Date: June 22, 2009 11:05AM

-RIPPE- Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> the 3/2 vs 1 mentality in ffas results from the
> movement of most good players to teamgames. once
> most players reach a certain degree of skill 3/2
> vs 1 is just no option anymore cuz its just bad
> style and many good fights got destroyed by this
> shit. i will always instantly support those
> getting attacked by 2 or more and instantly stop
> attacking my enemy when he/she gets attacked by a
> second one.
> still 3/2 vs 1 is part of the game and cryin about
> it hasnt stopped any noob yet.

I happen to enjoy the 2v1 possibilities in FFAs. The main reason I don't enjoy playing FFA is that people complain so much about being 2v1'd (whether or not I'm involved in the 2v1). When I get 2v1'd, I take it as a skill and diplomatic challenge... surely there will only be 1 winner so these 2 will have to turn on eachother eventually, so I prod them on to do so sooner rather than later. I also plead for others to help (if I need it). And of course, I put up a valiant fight that often wins when the 2 are both noobs (frequently the case in ffa).

FFA stands for Free For All... not Free Only As Long As You Follow Certain Rules, that would be FOALAYFCR and I don't think anyone wants to spell that out every time they want to play a game.

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Re: Team Games are Killing Conqueror !
Posted by: Scum ()
Date: June 22, 2009 12:04PM

Instead of stopping the invasion of a player who has entered a 2v1 because someone else has attacked him, attack someone else!! 2v2 is how I like it. Get the 2v2v2v2 going and it gets all insane. The true FFA, everyone is attacking 2 players.

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Re: Team Games are Killing Conqueror !
Posted by: Captain Planet ()
Date: June 22, 2009 10:52PM

" will always instantly support those getting attacked by 2 or more "

RIPPE, don't bullshit, October 2006 ;)

I'll never forget our colourful past

[www.conquerorgame.com]

Enjoy!

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Re: Team Games are Killing Conqueror !
Posted by: -RIPPE- ()
Date: June 23, 2009 12:51AM

it was a bloody lie back then and it still is today.

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